Sign In
Register
Help
Start a new topic
Add Reply
I just got an 00 gti VR6 and I'm going to be able to fiberglass/mdf about 4-5 cubes worth of space into the spare well and hatch. I have a CSS SDX15 that I am looking to step up from powered on a beefed up PPI a1200 at 4 ohms, over 1200 watts in a 3.5 cube box tuned to about 28hz. I had really always wanted the audiopulse LMS 5400 but I love the look of the amps and have a matching four channel that I don't want to change. I'm looking at maybe 2 LMS-R 12 dual 2 ohms and getting another a1200 and having it beefed up by Chris at dBr electronics like my other one. I had also considered having Thilo make me a custom LMS Ultra 5400 fifteen inch, but it's too much monies.
Any thoughts? I've owned the final gen Adire Tumult, a Dayton Titanic MK3, and currently the CSS SDX15. I'd like more output, especially down low, better sq. Need to not overshoot my current space requirements. Sound quality is extremely important in this install. I'd like good low end extension. Full car sound deadening, morel 3 way comps, pioneer dex-p99rs, I'm going balls out. Does the LMS-R fit the bill here? Can I have the baskets of mine either powder coated or painted, and can I have the cone etched if I provide a vector file? Maybe I can shoot for three of these LMS-R's and three a1200's?
Page 1 of 1
stepping up from a CSS SDX15 what should I be looking at?
MultiQuote
#2
Kyle 
- Advanced Member
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 109
- Joined: 27-February 10
Posted 29 July 2010 - 01:54 AM
Two LMS's R 12's + 1 more amp would be a good step up. You'll have about the same sensitivity (maybe a tad better) but you'll have twice the power and over twice the power handling and a sizable displacement advantage which will all contribute to a much healthy low end. I don't think you need to go to 3 woofers, two should be enough.
Unfortunately we can not do any customization, but the baskets are powder coated silver. If you're real limited on space, you could consider doing some VMP's which would also give you the multiple tuning advantage and you would play with lower or high tunes to see what you like best.
Unfortunately we can not do any customization, but the baskets are powder coated silver. If you're real limited on space, you could consider doing some VMP's which would also give you the multiple tuning advantage and you would play with lower or high tunes to see what you like best.
#3 Guest_flak_monkey_*
Posted 29 July 2010 - 11:07 AM
I might want to play with some VMP's, would you be willing to assist with an enclosure for my available space? I'm fairly sure I can squeeze 5 cuft out of this hatch. I may still decide to go with three, since car fi has always been about being superfluous for me. How about a design for a sealed fiberglass enclosure with three? A VMP enclosure with 3? and a ported with 3? Do i have the space for the last two? I have always wanted to do the hair trick with a ruler-flat BL curve :-P
#4
Kyle
- Advanced Member
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 109
- Joined: 27-February 10
Posted 30 July 2010 - 12:33 AM
Give me some hard dimensions otherwise all you need to worry bout is volume. The LMS-R can work great in 1.5 cubic feet with a VMP if you're trying to just hit ~30Hz (28 is very similar)
It has a very flat response in 1.5 cubes with a single VMP loaded with 650 grams (that's bare weight + washers) I have the charts posted so you can accurately get it to about 650. So with three you could have 4.5 cubes total. This might be hard to fit inside of 5 with the wall thickness. If you give me some hard dims, we can start to play with real designs.
It has a very flat response in 1.5 cubes with a single VMP loaded with 650 grams (that's bare weight + washers) I have the charts posted so you can accurately get it to about 650. So with three you could have 4.5 cubes total. This might be hard to fit inside of 5 with the wall thickness. If you give me some hard dims, we can start to play with real designs.
#5 Guest_flak_monkey_*
Posted 08 August 2010 - 04:31 PM
Kyle, on 30 July 2010 - 12:33 AM, said:
Give me some hard dimensions otherwise all you need to worry bout is volume. The LMS-R can work great in 1.5 cubic feet with a VMP if you're trying to just hit ~30Hz (28 is very similar)
It has a very flat response in 1.5 cubes with a single VMP loaded with 650 grams (that's bare weight + washers) I have the charts posted so you can accurately get it to about 650. So with three you could have 4.5 cubes total. This might be hard to fit inside of 5 with the wall thickness. If you give me some hard dims, we can start to play with real designs.
It has a very flat response in 1.5 cubes with a single VMP loaded with 650 grams (that's bare weight + washers) I have the charts posted so you can accurately get it to about 650. So with three you could have 4.5 cubes total. This might be hard to fit inside of 5 with the wall thickness. If you give me some hard dims, we can start to play with real designs.
Okay Kyle, I got in there and measured (twice :-P) and came up with this. Now obviously there are more contours than I've accounted for, both adding to and subtracting from total volume. With that in mind, I did allow for some wiggle room with these measurements and positive that I'm going to net just under 5 cubes without driver displacement. I have decided on two subs since logistics of the third sub are staggering. The added expense of running a second alternator to feed three ppi a1200, not to mention cost and weight, it will be ridiculous. The real kicker is it will make working in the engine bay almost impossible.
So let's go with two LMS-R 12's each with it's own ppi a1200 and an appropriate number of VMP's, or perhaps try for a ported box. I'd love to shoot for flat extension into the mid to upper 20's. Just for kicks, how loud do you think this setup will be?
#6 Guest_flak_monkey_*
Posted 08 August 2010 - 04:37 PM
oh yeah, and of course I will make the baffle double thick, but don't account for that if you are doing any calculations. There's an extra inch in that direction (making it 7.75) but I was going to do some crafty router work with a facade so I left it out of the measurements.
#7
hispls
- Advanced Member
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 31
- Joined: 12-August 10
Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:09 AM
I used a pair of TC4K 12s in about 6.5 cube tuned to 28hz, I can tell you they did more output <30hz than a pair of 15" 2000's in the same box. LMS drivers define low extension.
Also, I've done similar in a spare tire well myself. Do realize that the cost of building up your floor with fiberglass will be pretty high unless you are friendly with a boat-yard that gets the stuff by the 55 gallon drum. Also when I did this I had to put air bags in my suspension to keep the ass end of my car off the ground. I can suggest using some form of 3/4" plywood over MDF, it saves a ton of weight. Also you should plan to use a few dowels or 2X3's or something as pilars to keep the baffle from flexing (it will flex like crazy even with 1.5" thick). IMHO bracing > double thick walls.
Also, I've done similar in a spare tire well myself. Do realize that the cost of building up your floor with fiberglass will be pretty high unless you are friendly with a boat-yard that gets the stuff by the 55 gallon drum. Also when I did this I had to put air bags in my suspension to keep the ass end of my car off the ground. I can suggest using some form of 3/4" plywood over MDF, it saves a ton of weight. Also you should plan to use a few dowels or 2X3's or something as pilars to keep the baffle from flexing (it will flex like crazy even with 1.5" thick). IMHO bracing > double thick walls.
#8 Guest_flak_monkey_*
Posted 15 August 2010 - 12:25 PM
hispls, on 14 August 2010 - 06:09 AM, said:
I used a pair of TC4K 12s in about 6.5 cube tuned to 28hz, I can tell you they did more output <30hz than a pair of 15" 2000's in the same box. LMS drivers define low extension.
Also, I've done similar in a spare tire well myself. Do realize that the cost of building up your floor with fiberglass will be pretty high unless you are friendly with a boat-yard that gets the stuff by the 55 gallon drum. Also when I did this I had to put air bags in my suspension to keep the ass end of my car off the ground. I can suggest using some form of 3/4" plywood over MDF, it saves a ton of weight. Also you should plan to use a few dowels or 2X3's or something as pilars to keep the baffle from flexing (it will flex like crazy even with 1.5" thick). IMHO bracing > double thick walls.
Also, I've done similar in a spare tire well myself. Do realize that the cost of building up your floor with fiberglass will be pretty high unless you are friendly with a boat-yard that gets the stuff by the 55 gallon drum. Also when I did this I had to put air bags in my suspension to keep the ass end of my car off the ground. I can suggest using some form of 3/4" plywood over MDF, it saves a ton of weight. Also you should plan to use a few dowels or 2X3's or something as pilars to keep the baffle from flexing (it will flex like crazy even with 1.5" thick). IMHO bracing > double thick walls.
Hey thanks for the reply. I didn't think about baffle flex, but I'm sure with a top baffle that size it will be an issue. I use fiberglasssite for all my stuff. I like their premium resin and their biaxial weave mat, 3-4 layers tops and more strength. Baltic birch would absolutely by better than MDF, I'll brace the hell out of it.
I'm still waiting to hear from kyle on the optimum enclosure, should I go with two chambers or one, how many VMP's and of what size, etc.
#9
hispls
- Advanced Member
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 31
- Joined: 12-August 10
Posted 15 August 2010 - 02:34 PM
flak_monkey, on 15 August 2010 - 12:25 PM, said:
Hey thanks for the reply. I didn't think about baffle flex, but I'm sure with a top baffle that size it will be an issue. I use fiberglasssite for all my stuff. I like their premium resin and their biaxial weave mat, 3-4 layers tops and more strength. Baltic birch would absolutely by better than MDF, I'll brace the hell out of it.
I'm still waiting to hear from kyle on the optimum enclosure, should I go with two chambers or one, how many VMP's and of what size, etc.
I'm still waiting to hear from kyle on the optimum enclosure, should I go with two chambers or one, how many VMP's and of what size, etc.
Multiple chambers will be a lot more forgiving of slight variances of TS specs and PR mass and add more rigidity to your enclosure...at the expense of some volume and possible some efficiency since you'll need to mass load the PRs more to tune smaller chambers. I'd also consider multiple chambers so I could try tuning each one to a different freq if you need a little boost anywhere might be handy.
The box I built into a spare tire well was in an old Lincoln towncar and it was a bandpass ported up through the rear deck using 6 cheap JBL 12's. Even off of about 800W or so it was getting (old Orion 250hcca) the double thick MDF was flexing something fierce. My first pair of TC subs I actually split the seem on my box. So yeah, brace the hell out of it!
Post some pics though as you go and seriously I think you'll have to upgrade your suspension.
#10
Kyle
- Advanced Member
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 109
- Joined: 27-February 10
Posted 22 August 2010 - 01:36 PM
sealed boxes are pretty easy. This design is 3.5 cubic feet total (subtracting the thickness of the mdf 0.75"), plenty for both woofers. I didn't do any curves to fit the spare tire well because that's very complex with standard MDF.
This box fits your outer dimensions and the top baffle is 1.5" thick.
This box fits your outer dimensions and the top baffle is 1.5" thick.
Attached thumbnail(s)
#11 Guest_flak_monkey_*
Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:20 PM
Kyle, on 22 August 2010 - 01:36 PM, said:
sealed boxes are pretty easy. This design is 3.5 cubic feet total (subtracting the thickness of the mdf 0.75"), plenty for both woofers. I didn't do any curves to fit the spare tire well because that's very complex with standard MDF.
This box fits your outer dimensions and the top baffle is 1.5" thick.
This box fits your outer dimensions and the top baffle is 1.5" thick.
Well Kyle I've gotta tell ya I'm impressed. are the cones etched with the tc logo? Is there any way at all I can get them without that? I assume this box accounts for the passive radiators. I'm going to go with fiberglass and baltic birch but thanks a million for the box mockup, it's a great place for me to start. What is the internal volume of each chamber here, 1.5 cubes? 1200 watts on each of these and this thing should beat like an abusive stepfather.
#12
Kyle
- Advanced Member
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 109
- Joined: 27-February 10
Posted 25 August 2010 - 06:37 PM
The volume is 1.75 ft^3 per chamber. The woofers are mind in large production so we can't alter them such as removing the logo.
That box was designed for sealed purpose, but if you want passives, we need to add them. What will work is if you put them on the same baffle as the active woofers (but center them over the shorter section of the box) The passives are 5.83" deep which just clears the box ,but as soon as they move, they will bottom out into the box. The good news is ~500-600 grams of total moving mass looks great in 1.75 cubes and that means you only need to add the nut that comes with the VMP and no washers.
(the first x value is with no added mass, the second is the nut, the third is the nut+ washer, fourth is nut + 2 washers etc etc)
So you don't need a thread that is that long (the max is 18 washers + nut). You can simply take a hacksaw and cut it flush with the cup which takes off about 2" of depth.
Take a look at the drawing for a better understanding.
http://www.data-bass.../files/3239.PDF
You could also try 15" VMP's for a little extra headroom, but you'll have to add a bit more mass (added 2 maybe 3 washers) to achieve the same tuning and they are deeper too: here is the drawing. You can still cut the thread flush to make it fit.
http://www.data-bass.../files/3240.PDF
It might end up looking like this with two 12" VMP's and the frequency response is very flat (tuning is about 30Hz)
That box was designed for sealed purpose, but if you want passives, we need to add them. What will work is if you put them on the same baffle as the active woofers (but center them over the shorter section of the box) The passives are 5.83" deep which just clears the box ,but as soon as they move, they will bottom out into the box. The good news is ~500-600 grams of total moving mass looks great in 1.75 cubes and that means you only need to add the nut that comes with the VMP and no washers.
(the first x value is with no added mass, the second is the nut, the third is the nut+ washer, fourth is nut + 2 washers etc etc)
So you don't need a thread that is that long (the max is 18 washers + nut). You can simply take a hacksaw and cut it flush with the cup which takes off about 2" of depth.
Take a look at the drawing for a better understanding.
http://www.data-bass.../files/3239.PDF
You could also try 15" VMP's for a little extra headroom, but you'll have to add a bit more mass (added 2 maybe 3 washers) to achieve the same tuning and they are deeper too: here is the drawing. You can still cut the thread flush to make it fit.
http://www.data-bass.../files/3240.PDF
It might end up looking like this with two 12" VMP's and the frequency response is very flat (tuning is about 30Hz)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Page 1 of 1